Leading American feminist Catharine MacKinnon makes a strong case for criminalising the client and not the sex worker Catharine A MacKinnon is one of the leading figures of American feminism. A PhD in law and in political science, a lawyer, a theorist and a feminist, she has been in the forefront of gender equality for several decades.
MacKinnon teaches in the law faculties of the universities of Michigan and Chicago, after having taught at Yale, Harvard, Stanford, UCLA, Osgoode Hall (Toronto) and Bâle University (Switzerland).
In her book Are Women Human?, she writes: “If women were humans, would we be a cash crop shipped from Thailand in containers into New York brothels?… Would we be burned when our dowry money wasn’t enough, when men tired of us, starved as widows when our husbands died (if we survived the funeral pyre).”
For the past 25 years, Catharine MacKinnon has been a major influence on the evolution of the law on gender discrimination, as also on pornography and prostitution as forms of violence against women.
She was recently in the capital with Ruchira Gupta, president of Apne Aap Women Worldwide which works with women in prostitution. MacKinnon spoke out forcefully in favour of amending the present Indian Immoral Trafficking Prevention Act which, at present, favours the client and criminalises the prostitute.
You are currently in India to canvas support for an amendment of 5C of the Immoral Trafficking (Prevention) Act which, if passed, will decriminalise the prostitute and instead criminalise the client.
The real criminals are those who buy these women 20-30 times a day. We need to take the views of the prostitutes and turn these views into real law. This is the method I have used for the past 35 years. We need to understand the reality of sexual violence and recognise that this is a criminal act.
The real criminals are those who buy these women 20-30 times a day. We need to take the views of the prostitutes and turn these views into real law. This is the method I have used for the past 35 years. We need to understand the reality of sexual violence and recognise that this is a criminal act.
These women must be given a real choice. They are in this situation because they are poor. This is not something they want for their children. All the women I spoke to in my interactions in West Bengal and Bihar spoke about how they wanted to educate their daughters and were sending them to boarding schools. There was a real determination in them to do something else in order to escape their present profession. That is why I have been telling these women that their children must be given access to education. They also want real police protection which their entire community is being denied.
How will the removal of 5C of the Immoral Trafficking (Prevention) Act change the situation?
The removal of 5C will decriminalise the prostitute and instead criminalise the client. This will immediately reduce the number of people visiting them. I expect that it will produce an 80% and more drop. Buyers are the engines that drive prostitution. We need to criminalise the buyers. Prostitution is male violence against women. Gender equality will remain unattainable so long as men buy, sell and exploit women and children by prostituting them.
The removal of 5C will decriminalise the prostitute and instead criminalise the client. This will immediately reduce the number of people visiting them. I expect that it will produce an 80% and more drop. Buyers are the engines that drive prostitution. We need to criminalise the buyers. Prostitution is male violence against women. Gender equality will remain unattainable so long as men buy, sell and exploit women and children by prostituting them.
This has been done in Sweden which now has the lowest trafficking rate in Europe. I have been insisting (through my writings and lectures) that legalisation of prostitution will not solve the problem of prostitution.
People seem to believe that once this industry is legalised, the police will be able to handle the situation. But this is not the case. Mass legitimisation in this country will see an entire illegal industry explode under it. This has happened in the Netherlands, Germany and Australia. People seem to forget that women do not want to be part of this legal industry. They do not want to be in it forever. They do not want to put their real names on a medical card; they do not want to give up on themselves.
Wherever prostitution has been legalised, the traffickers have increased. The industry begins to make huge profits and the poor are then trafficked and used in order to service the rich.
Would you say legalisation and the use of condoms go hand-in-hand?
Women are told to use condoms, but at the same time governments forget that women can charge a higher price for not using a condom. Prostitution spawns a lot of violence and buyers are known to use force in order to get their way.
Women are told to use condoms, but at the same time governments forget that women can charge a higher price for not using a condom. Prostitution spawns a lot of violence and buyers are known to use force in order to get their way.
Which other countries are in the forefront of trying to end prostitution?
India needs to be in the forefront of stopping this sexual slavery. Once the law is passed, ordinary men will stop going to brothels because they do not want to take the risk. Norway passed this Bill, in part, two month ago. The objective is to end trafficking of women and children. Latvia and the Philippines have also passed similar Bills, as has the UK. New York passed a partial Bill.
India needs to be in the forefront of stopping this sexual slavery. Once the law is passed, ordinary men will stop going to brothels because they do not want to take the risk. Norway passed this Bill, in part, two month ago. The objective is to end trafficking of women and children. Latvia and the Philippines have also passed similar Bills, as has the UK. New York passed a partial Bill.
Why a partial Bill? Has there been a lot of resistance to the Bill in New York?
Why is New York resisting? Why is every place resisting? No one wants to go far enough. The reason for this is because people believe that prostitution is inevitable. The women in it are defined as that kind of women. There is a sexual definition of women, and people believe it is in her nature, or at least (the nature) of a certain kind of woman.
Why is New York resisting? Why is every place resisting? No one wants to go far enough. The reason for this is because people believe that prostitution is inevitable. The women in it are defined as that kind of women. There is a sexual definition of women, and people believe it is in her nature, or at least (the nature) of a certain kind of woman.
Women are being pushed into it, and the question to be asked is not whether they have a right to do it but whether they have a right not to do it. This is true internationally and applies to women in all kinds of services, whether it be the escort service or callgirls.
At present a lot of money is being pumped in, in the name of condoms to be used to curb the spread of HIV/AIDS. People who want to legalise prostitution do not want this trafficking to stop. There are managers and brothel owners who are living off the industry. It is in their vested interest to keep up this false debate.
The truth of the matter is that prostitutes do not have an income. They are kept like slaves and their income is divided between six people, including the pimp, the brothel owner, the financier and the moneylender. For a woman, an income from prostitution is possible only for a limited period of time. Young prostitutes are even more exploited. They are disease-ridden, being forced to become dependent on drugs and alcohol. There is a whole system exploiting them. They live in concentration camps with pimps and brothel owners acting as prison guards.
I go all over the world and people tell me how happy women are in prostitution. You take the most oppressed situation of a woman and present it as though it were of her own choosing!
How is a change going to be brought about?
Swedish law came from the abolitionist law which meant abolishing this form of slavery. We need to emphasise that the immoral trafficking law does not work, and that women in prostitution are victims who should not be victimised.
Swedish law came from the abolitionist law which meant abolishing this form of slavery. We need to emphasise that the immoral trafficking law does not work, and that women in prostitution are victims who should not be victimised.
We need to provide alternative employment to these women. Why should we maintain the status quo; it must be changed. We are trying to show them support by organising them into self-help groups. Groups of women are trying to find different solutions. In Mumbai’s red light area, these women are working in soup kitchens. In Kolkata, young girls are finding jobs and are working in gas stations.
Legal protection must also be provided to them against criminals and sections of society that feel prostitutes should remain where they are. The police have to be trained to take the matter seriously and not be bought off. Women in India are also prostituted on the basis of their caste, as is the case in Bihar. Upper caste men dominate these women and no local authority comes forward to protect them. We have conducted tribunals where women have spoken out against this form of exploitation. We have helped them get BPL (below the poverty line) cards.
You have also campaigned strongly against pornography.
Pornography is a huge business, with an annual turnover of over $20 billion. Pornographers today have even more control over the public space than they did earlier, and popular culture is increasingly adapting itself to the fact that more and more people are pornography consumers. Pornography is a form of trafficking women, but in a more sophisticated way.
Pornography is a huge business, with an annual turnover of over $20 billion. Pornographers today have even more control over the public space than they did earlier, and popular culture is increasingly adapting itself to the fact that more and more people are pornography consumers. Pornography is a form of trafficking women, but in a more sophisticated way.
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